When you first meet Polish people in Poland, one of the first questions they always ask you is ‘So, what do you think of Polish people?’ or ‘So, what do you think of Poland’ I’m not saying they introduce themselves with these words, but I would bet money that it will come up within the first five minutes of conversation. It’s almost like they’re wondering if you would like to buy the place. I’ve known lots of British and American people who have lived in Poland for long or short periods and this always comes up. ‘Why do they keep asking what we think of them?’ we ask each other over a quiet beer. This is a topic of much discussion among Brits and Americans living here. Some people tend to dismiss the idea by saying that there really isn’t any difference between Poles and Brits when you get down to basics, but I think this misses the point. There is a difference, it’s just very hard to describe exactly what it is, that’s the problem. You can clearly feel it, but you can’t quite say what it is. It’s true that Poles and Brits want more or less the same things out of life, enough money, a house, a family and some friends. But this isn’t what the differences are about.
Perhaps the most important difference is revealed by the question itself ‘What do you think of Polish people?’ I find it very hard to imagine a British person asking this question of a Polish visitor to Britain, and ever harder to imagine an American asking it. It just wouldn’t occur to us to ask, but it seems to be the first thing on the minds of Poles. If I met a Pole or a Lithuanian or a Tibetan in London I would probably ask ‘How are you getting on in London?’ but I wouldn’t ask ‘What do you think of Londoners?’ For one thing the question makes no sense. There are millions of different kinds of people living in London from all over the world (many of them from Poland!) so there is no such thing as a ‘normal’ Londoner. There is a London identity, but it comes from knowing the same places and facing the same problems (tube nightmares, horrendously expensive rents, the occasional suicide bomber), not from any sense that we are the same in some way. In many ways we really don’t care what foreigners think of us (an arrogance that has absolutely no basis) and when they are rude about us, we never take it seriously.
There is definitely something in the Polish character that is very concerned about the way other people see them. The concepts of personal and national shame are very strong here. People are generally extremely aware of their social position in relation to others and they extend this to their perception of how the rest of the world sees Poland. At the same time they have a strong sense that being Polish means you have some kind of romantic inner strength and passion that can’t be matched by people from lesser nations. The question is really two questions in one: ‘Are you laughing at us?’ and ‘Have you noticed how special Polish people are?’ The first part of this question ‘Are you laughing at us?’ seems to torture the Polish psyche almost continuously. Poland is not a rich country, although it is a hell of a lot richer than it was twenty or even ten years ago, and there are lots of things that ‘westerners’ would regard as old fashioned or even primitive, but it really isn’t so different from most places in western Europe. Poles are hypersensitive about the differences that do exist but they always overestimate how important or obvious these differences are to foreigners. There are two phrases that I have heard literally hundreds of times when Poles talk about the way westerners see them: ‘You all think there are Polar bears on the streets’ or ‘You all think it’s some kind of jungle over here.’ I had never heard either of these descriptions of Poland before I came here, but most Polish people are convinced this is what we are all saying about them.
I’ve never seen a Polar bear in Poland. I have seen a tiger, but that’s a different story
Exactly where these particular ideas came from I have no idea. I suppose the Polar bears are some kind of reference to the confusion between Poland, the old Warsaw Pact countries, Russia, and Siberia, although I’m far from sure that Polar bears live in any of these areas. I put the jungle reference down to Joseph Conrad. Actually, when British people think about Poland, if they ever do, they will probably have images of queues to buy toilet paper, Trabants, and goose-stepping Russian troops, all of which are at least 30 years out of date. British people who have actually been here, and there are a lot of them, will have memories of being very pleasantly surprised at how nice and friendly the place is.
The kind of thing English people expect to see in Poland
In part II I’ll be looking a specific questions about Polish culture including such diverse and fascinating topics as ‘Is Adam Małysz a saint,’ ‘Do Poles drink too much vodka,’ and ‘Who is this Jan Pawel drugi person anyway?’
Tomorrow I’m going to a wedding with A (not mine, or hers). Apparently it lasts for two days and there might be some vodka involved. I might be conscious sometime late on Monday, although I wouldn’t put money on it.
OK, I pulled myself together after having laughed for an hour:) so I can actually write a comment
First of all it was amazing to read this, as you unveiled something which no one notices although it’s there all the time. Even I must have asked foreigners dozens of times what they thought about Poland and the Polish. Never wondered about it before.
And I too could not imagine a British person asking me what I thought of Britain (although I got asked once what I thought of Jersey ehehehe)
Probably Poles see themselves as a very homogeneous nation, and this might be the source of all trouble:) For many people in this country it is out of their comprehension that some have different views or different lifestyles. For they must be wrong (or not Polish) and step down from the road to hell;)
When you mentioned the “do you laugh at us vs do you notice how special we are” My instant reaction was “so they actually understand more than they seem to”
PS. Honestly this is terrible, I completely ADORE your style and after you write another post I’ll probably launch your fan-club!:)
PPS. I got interested when you mentioned you thought Poles have high sense of personal shame and social standing. Do you think you could elaborate on that in one of your next posts?
PPPS. Have a good time at the wedding and do tell us all about it. And how undressed did you get during the stag party the on main town square?:>
Honestly polishpress, you’re making me blush!
Glad you enjoyed it though. I will be addressing many of these questions and more in future posts.
Me? Undressed in the Rynek? I deny all knowledge of this event and you can’t prove a thing.
Commenting late, but what the hex: you write “I’ve never seen a Polar bear in Poland”. That held true till you read my About page, lol.
Re: What are Polish people like?…Should you need someone with experience between the English speakers in Poland and the Poles in the English speaklands – you can have me (metaphorically). For 20 years I have felt I’m a Scotsman. (I feel – therefore I am. No relatives recorded, no Balmorals owned, mind.) Stereotypes mingling.
I am enjoying this. I know people in Krakow and Warszawa, have been there and plan to go back in 2009.
Mike
http://www.michaelcharton.com
Hey tucson,
. Thanks for reading and glad you enjoyed it.
Both great towns (have no idea about Tucson however
[...] on Britsh tv it leaves me confused, or wondering wtf? Poles may be used as comic relief, for their awkwardness (see The Peep Show series 4). In ‘Skins’ (series 1) there’s an unlikely character [...]
just had to add-for the majority of poles that feel the need to maintain a good status, be it for themselves or homeland-i bet few of these are over 30. I have worked with many under that age (making up what seems to be the majority that have moved to the uk?) and most def did not have this feeling of maintaining a good reputation. perhaps thats why they felt right at home up here in the north of scotland *hic* lol! personally i did not see much of a diff in character between poles and brits
Hi
Thank U v. much for leaving a comment on my blog. It is really nice to read Your stories about Poland and Your point of view on what it is like. It is quite interesting. I have read the story What ARE Polish people like? Part One. It was quite funny. I agree with you. I guess the questions “What do you think about Poland” come from a huge minority complex of whole population. As I wrote on my weblog, our country was separated from the rest of Europe for almost 65 years. It was not really fair. Poland always wanted to be a part of the Western community. It was a political decision to make Poland one of Soviet republics. Well, I guess you have to imagine how it feels for people if someone makes decisions for them and how it feels if they have no influence on their future and position. Poland has been independent for only 20 years. People are still somewhere deep inside afraid that it is not for long and not for ever. They also have this very particular attitude towards traveling. If you go abroad for a couple of months, Polish people call it an “emigration” right away. If you come back, they ask you if you came back for ever. This is ridiculous, because you cannot define by this point in your life that you will never again go to Paris or London. They think there is nothing interesting about Poland, that’s why they ask if you like it? It is probably they don’t like it all that much. Do you like Britain all that much? There is a difference between an identity of a Londoner or a citizen of Warsaw. There are not as many people from other countries in Poland, yet, or they have not been coming here for a long time. I guess you can define what is a Polish identity. That’s where the question is from. Anyway, your point of view is very interesting. I’m glad you write about Poland and that You enjoy staying here. I have been to England. I lived in Devon. It is quite interesting, because people asked me very often if I liked Devon rather than if I like England in general. But, you know, they also asked me if I liked London. I guess it is quite natural question. But I guess your point is that Polish people ask the question with an attitude that it is impossible for you to like it.
Tigers in Poland ? Where ?! ZOO?!
I don’t understand …. First you write that there’s no Polar Bears and than shoot with tigers?!! Please…..
Polska rządzi!!!
Aeni: Many years ago, shortly after I came to Poland for the first time, a tiger escaped from (I think) a circus and was running around the streets of Warsaw. The police eventually shot it, but not before they had shot some poor guy who was trying to tranquilize the tiger. It was all very surreal and sad.
WHAT?! A tiger? Where? I lived in Poland for 17 years and I’ve never seen a tiger
(Only in ZOO, but that’s a different story…:P)
Ah, I already read comment above. Tiger on the streets… What a view o0
I read your post and it’s really interesting. I’m a Polish, so I might have some insight about your thoughtful post. You’re wondering why do we keep asking those questions and what’s so different about us that is hard to grasp at the first time. It’s really complicated and connected to our complex history, educational system, possibly also the “Polish soul” and nevertheless strong identification with our country.
First of all let me explain that in our minds we are paradoxical people. We have strong feeling of connection with our country and our history. But we are all talking about how we hate this country, our government and we are always thinking that something that what is foreign must be better. Our national pride conflicts with our national shame. Really. Take a look at our achievements. We think we didn’t really achieve anything as a nation. We are not a big country, but nevertheless it’s the biggest and one of the oldest countries in the Central Europe. When you take a look at for example Noble prize winners we have only few, compared to other countries. We don’t have any significant achievements in science, technology or pretty much anything else. Our culture is mediocre and not on the top. Poles strive to be recognized among other nations and we would like to be among the best. Of course this is not true that we don’t have any achievements at all, but we always thing that at most we are average. There are many things that we achieved, but they are either not known or not very visible. This might be one thing. Also our culture is not visible abroad, our influence among other nations never was anything from the top-star league if I might say it in this way. We are thinking that we are at best average and even if we manage to get to the top in some thing or the other, we either don’t think it’s important or the achievement is neglected. There’s a thing in this nation that is called among us “A Polish Hell”. Most Poles are very envious about achievements of other nations, but if someone in this nation achieves something it’s either that he or she did it by stealing something (applies to wealthy people), using others to achieve it (and it was not because of his hard work) or simply that he had connections. “Polish Hell” is also an excuse to blame everyone for everything. It doesn’t matter if you achieve success, many Poles will blame him for whatever reason, and if you fail you’re in front of very hard critique and they will still blame you. Communism imprinted in us the mentality of “worse is better” and “don’t try to get above average”. It’s the frustration of the masses in this nation that unveils itself when somebody achieved success that he must be blamed, because he couldn’t achieve it without (most of the time) some illegal activity.
Unfortunately this is only the tip of the iceberg. Our national pride has diminished in the last few hundred years mostly because of the influences of foreign nations. Under three consequent annexations of Poland we were under influence of Germany, Austria and Russia. Those nations tried to destroy our nation, our culture and our language. We were told that we are not capable of governing ourselves therefore we should not have the means to be an independent state. Since 18th century our country and dissidents where under strong influence of neighboring countries, foreign spies and we have strong feelings imprinted in our minds that we were left alone by our allies (like French and UK for example in WW2). We feel that our role in each and every field is neglected, is simply forgot and that we are brought to the role of cheap workforce for more developed nations. All those things are boiling in this nation, because we want to be recognized and commended. That’s why we have strong feelings for e.g. Churchill and USA, because they somehow recognized us. I think we simply need to be constantly reassured that we are somehow important for others and that we are not that average after all. Poles have strong inner feeling to be recognized among other nations as one of the important ones and that we should somehow also have some voice in geopolitics and global affairs. Perhaps this is partly because of our national megalomania. However we don’t want to be recognized as people who are doing this because of pride. We simply want to know that our place among nations is not neglected.
In fact we are a modern nation, still under strong influences from more powerful countries. We feel that global politics is defining our lives in our countries and this makes us feel that even though we are independent we are manipulated and dissidents are more interested in their own pockets and they are influenced by foreign agents and interests of powerful world-groups… Poles love freedom and we simply feel that our freedom is not how it should be. We even have a national motto from WW2 saying: “God, honor, the State”. I think it describes feelings of most of us, Poles.
I could go on and talk about this topic, but in fact deeply within we are feeling that we are not worse than others, but we like to think that others are seeing us as a third-world nation or something like this.
Great post. Thank you.
cute
that is sort of funny…. lol.
axbnm,
Hail hitler! Death to the jews!! Polish enslavement for life!
the nazis are back bitch!
I am Polish. My parents came here to America in 1990, and I was born and raised in New York. I have learned the Polish language and feel a Pole at heart. As an American thought, I have to say that where ever I look, read about Polish people, they are always put down. There is so much of Polish history not known and not taught in school. Poland is completely omitted , even when people talk about WW1 and WW2. No one really knows about the Koszcziuszko Quadron and that France and Britain wouldn’t have managed without the Polish pilots WWII. Read “A Question of Honor” by Lynne Olson and Stanley Cloud. The book is pretty good, for a start. Another example is that no one knows that the first victims of WWII where Poles, and that after the war supposedly ended in 1945 the war continued for a very long time in Poland or rather against Poland. No one knows about Katyn and the mass exterminations and the burning up of villages. People where murdered for mentioning the word “Katyn”. Polish history is very much unknown and has been rewritten by people who want to keep it that way, even now, in todays times. Yes, the scary part is that now, in todays times people, meaning conventional citizens, teachers, professors, politicians, students and historians that want to uncover and show the documented truth about leading politicians of the past and present are persecuted. Not long ago a student from the University of Jagiellon in Krakow, a very prestigious university wrote a book about Lech Walesa using only facts from Walesa’s own intent library, authentic documentation, and historical facts. This book, written by a 24 year old student caused such a ridiculous sensation that it was almost comical to watch. All the tv programs where discussing this book, politicians where commenting or rather threatening the young student and his Professor. All the while, everyone who was against this book, hadn’t even read it. My main point is that this youngster, caused such a scare that the University was threatened with a check up, and the student was removed from IPN, a organization dealing with the “Conservation of National History”. Where has freedom of speech gone? There is such corruption everywhere….. and now? And now, Poland was the second world producer of natural, healthy sugar, but no because of the European Union, we import sugar, and the sugar is far from “good”. Funny how after each catastrophe, all the governments of the world say “never repeat past mistakes”, but it’s always the same governments saying these words. Poland has almost no manufacturing factories left, and the government is smiling and saying, we are becoming “European Citizens” be happy! Well, from what I see, we as a world are falling into another scary pit in history.
I was searching the web and found this page. We have a wonderful daughter-in-law that is from Poland, been in the states for 5 years now, and is a great addition to our family and my son’s life for a year. We love her so much.
Problem is, keeping it very short, she had a disagreement with a co-worker and she reacted very strongly to the point of threatening to go back to Poland. I’m related to the co-workers friend. And I am trying to stay out of it but she treats me as the enemy now.
My question is how can I talk with her to communicate that she is important to us. What can I say to help her refocus on her home, friends, and family and help her heal her hurt over the disagreement that seemed to blow out of proportion.
This website blog about Polish people and their pride in their country and how they can react personally to events helps me understand why she reacted so strongly.
All advice is appreciated.
Nan: I’m completely unqualified to comment on this since I don’t know your daughter-in-law or the situation. My only suggestion would be to wonder if she is homesick. Living in a foreign country is hard, even if you’ve been there a long time and appear to be well integrated. The feeling that the people around you are different in some indefinable way never goes away. In a conflict this can make you feel very isolated. Does she have Polish friends to talk to, or does she get back to Poland often?
Thanks for the reply. Actually, you are probably right. She has no Polish friends here. What you said makes a lot of sense. She lived with her dad in another state in a Polish community until she met my son and got married. They both wanted to live here, a smaller city where it’s not as crowded. Her dad went back to Poland a few weeks ago. So, you see, what you say makes a lot of sense. Thank you!
My dad is Polish and I really don’t like it when some one says something like that. Not all Polish people are like that. For example: most girls in America say shopping is their favorite activity, but I’m not such a big fan. If you think I’m crazy, well, that’s just me!
You’re right when publishing this blog entry, because I feel that Polish people live a distinctive lifestyle (and that their mind is very Polish – not European generally; you know that as the European Union was formed, European people tend to think about themselves in term of a whole group like “We are Europeans” and not “We are Germans” – but fortunately, this doesn’t happen to the Poles) that is needed to reveal out. Honestly, I can’t describe what that distinctive is neither – we can just feel it. However, one thing must be emphasized is that the Poles are very nationalistic (is this the result of what Chopin did in his life time that brought Polish folk music to its zenith?) – they are proud of their country and their culture! Every time I talk to them (and I always compare their styles to other Europeans’), I feel something “very nationalistic” being revealed out – they talk more about themselves not like other Europeans, they are very open to foreigners, they make jokes more often than other Europeans, and the most important of all – they are very Polish. Can’t describe their spirits into words though, but once you are friended with them, then you would know what that thought which couldn’t be put into words is. Thanks for this entry, and enjoy your days!
!
http://www.polishforums.com/
It really surprises me that you make such a big deal of the question: “ what do you think about Polish people?”
I’m a Polish born person living in the United States. I have been asked countless times by American citizens: “ what do I think of Americans or how do I like this country and culture.” Americans love their country and love when one says good things about the United States. It is nice to have a foreign person come and appreciate you. They ask tougher questions too: “do I think Americans are fat? Do people in my country are slim?” Many of them think British accent sound nicer.. they ask what I think about the accent.. A coworker from Atlanta told me that my accent was nicer because it was European sounding, not like her “southern accent” . Every nation has it’s Achilles’ heel.
Amazingly the image many of Americans have of Polish people is mainly the one presented by American media, usually dating from the time of the Solidarity movement, long food lines, old ladies and factory workers.
Somehow, Americans know very little of other people’s countries and cultures and very few of them speak foreign languages.
Poland has been hiding behind “the iron curtain” for so long that when it finally emerged, it was, to many people, some sort of post communist enigma. The entire country was put on trial (economic trial, political trial, social trial) – the world was watching us, wondering if we’ll ever make it. That is why people are so curious. They know they are doing pretty well, they want to see if you are surprised that they do. It was not an easy transition but they made it. Poland is the only country in Europe not trashed by the economic turmoil.
When my husband, native of California, arrived in Gdansk, he was flabbergasted. He said to me “ Polish people are so hip”.
He added that when he was practicing law in Denmark he thought that the Danish girls were prettier than California girls, but now he thinks Polish girls are prettier than Danish. He loved Poland and was surprised to see how knowledgeable and well educated the people he encountered were. I did not mid him saying that. I was rather curious what his perception of Poland would be. It’s my homeland.
When it comes to the “polar bear roaming the streets ” it is just an expression to reference an obscure, inhabitable place.. (nothing to do with Russia or Warsaw Pact.) in America you say “Hicks from the Sticks”. it’s jus a saying. You can not take or translate “an expression” or a “saying” literally.
To address the comment below your letter – “probably poles see themselves as a very homogeneous nation” – the truth is: Poles are a homogenous nation. When it comes to people’s “social position” no nation is more aware of it than the English.
And if a Polish person asks you again – if you think that they drink too much vodka – you can tell them the truth that the British and the Irish drink much more than the Polish do.
D.K.H.
An American friend told me about your Blog and said I would find the comments interesting, she was right.
I am English, newly married to a Polish girl, love Poland but find myself completely at a loss to understand the Polish Female Psyche. In short I would appreciate all the help I can get. Perhaps a starter for 10, are all Polish women Bossy ? how to cope, can a reserved-genteel-quiet type of guy ( me ), come to terms with the many complex influences that invaders have imposed on Poland, it’s Culture and more importantly, it’s Womanhood.
Yes, this obsession with my opinion concerning almost everything Polish, I have found quite amusing, perhaps an answer to the question as to why I had married a Polish Lady, slowed them a little in their tracks, I simply pointed that all English women had cold feet in bed, outlined my theory that female cold feet in bed and the placement of them in an attempt get warm, resulted over the years in an accumulative shock to the male nervous system, and was probably why we poor men usually die at a younger age than they do,
that my wife being Polish had warm feet in bed at night,
My questioner thought for a minute then said ” perhaps my wife has cold feet at night because she is from Gdansk”
Now search as I might and I really have, I am still trying to find just where in the UK, Gdansk is.
Other theories on Female cold feet, would be interesting.
confused Bazz
i love this
I’m polish AND every time some one gets to know that I’m polish they just start asking weird questions as “aren’t you scared that a bear gonna eat you?’ or ‘how is it to live in an igloo?’ every time they say it I just can’t resist loughing. NO we DO NOT ive in an igloo and NO there isn’t any bears walking down the street ( don’t think there is any bears outside country parks) .
My experience: weeks after I came to UK like most of the foreigners for job oportunities one of the first people I met were polish. I’m from South America in my first party here lots of people were from Poland most of them professionals which it means they are educated people. To say that I was from Paraguay it was something exotic which it normal..while I was having a conversation with a polish girl, she was trying to tell me how lucky I was to be here and not to be in Paraguay….she asked me if we have universities in Paraguay. I could not believe that someone was asking me something like this. My flatmate who was polish and who was sitting next to us, got angry and said something to her in Polish…the day after she was telling that from some Polish people just Europe, USA, Canada exists that rest of the world for some of them is a jungle. Poles here in this blog complain that the americans are ignorants but I think poles do not have neither knowledge about the rest of the world.
In the other hand …I have heard from so many polish people …telling me how much they hate to live here…they complain about everything the weather, the way how british people are..the food etc…must of them would like to go back to Poland.
My impression is that Polish people are very nationalist. While I was living in Germany I met also polish people there, they were not happy in Germany, they are not happy in USA…where they are happy? Just at home.
As non european I would say that polish people are very different are the rest of the Europeans…the attitutes…the way how they see life…My opinion and I do not want to offend anyone here is that polish folks are a very insecure nation with a very low self-esteem..for this reason they just feel confortable at home…and of course the whole history behind all this and maybe also the religion (catholic Church) has made it worse.
I think is not good to create as stereotype but once you get close with poles like in my case…I think general stereotypes are just real truth….
hegu: A good point. Polish people often get upset when people don’t know anything about Poland, but they are not the best informed about other parts of the world. It’s a double standard.
hi
i want to know about polish people and what they do
hi, I live in new york, long island, i plan on moving to Poland in 2010, I’m a little concerned about not knowing the polish language, is it possible to make a life there as a American with my fiance (she is polish), thank you for you answers.
Brian,
Yes, it is perfectly possible to make a life here. There are tens of thousands of Americans living here, as well as many other nationalities. It’s easier in the cities of course, where would you be living?
I recommend my other website Polandian.com for a humorous look at living in Poland and also this post:
http://polandian.home.pl/index.php/2008/03/20/polish-english-forums/
about internet forums for foreigners in Poland.
Lots of Poles speak good English, but certainly not all of them. It’s not that hard to pick up some survival Polish, despite what people tell you.