As I think I’ve mentioned before I misspent a portion of my youth in Poland. I first came here in 1997. In those days speaking English on the street could draw a crowd. It was almost impossible not to stand out. Although I am ostensibly a white northern European of fairly average height, weight, and demeanor Polish people somehow had the ability to identify me as a foreigner at 20 meters and seemed to be fascinated by the fact. On buses and trams people would swivel in their seats and openly stare at me as if expecting me to explode into flames or something similar. It was a very unnerving experience. I have been to the Far East where, as a white European, it is completely impossible to blend into the background and the experience was, amazingly, very similar. I eventually discovered that having my hair cut at a Polish barbers and buying my clothes in Polish clothes shops seemed to reduce my propensity to stand out like a sore thumb. But there are still many kinds of subtle body language that mark you out as a non-native. By the way, don’t believe anybody who says they can identify a Polish or an English person from the ‘way they look,’ it’s a complete pile of horse droppings. What they really mean is that they subconsciously register the subtle differences in body language that exist between cultures. I would be willing to bet real spending money that nobody could reliably identify Brits, Poles, Czechs, Russian, Frogs (sorry French), or Germans from photos alone – you need to see people walk and move, you need to see their body language. Any suggestion to the contrary is racism pure and simple. It is amazing how easy it is for me to spot English people on the streets of Krakow (not just because they have their trousers around their ankles) or Polish people on the streets of London, but 90 percent of it is down to their body language, nothing else. The way people talk to each other (even when you can’t hear the language they are speaking), the way they look at other people, the amount of personal space they try to preserve, and even the side of the pavement that they favor are all giveaways. Interestingly it was this last item that first turned me on to these differences. In my first few weeks in Poland I became convinced that Poles were incredibly rude and arrogant because they were constantly walking into me on the street. It took me ages to realize that people just pass each other on the opposite side to what I was used to. Two people walking towards each other on the street have to decide which side they are going to pass on, English people almost invariably choose to pass on the left while Polish people almost equally invariably choose to pass on the right. The vast majority of people never think about this but, believe me, as a foreigner it can cause all kinds of trouble. Slamming headlong into little old ladies with sharp umbrellas on numerous occasions doesn’t do anyone’s morale any good, and the medical costs for the treatment of stab wounds soon add up.
What I’m leading up to here, in my roundabout way, is the issue of culture shock. Culture shock is a very real phenomenon but it has nothing to do with unfamiliar food or unexpected customs or even an unknown language. It’s the sudden realization that you just don’t understand how the people around you are thinking. You feel that you can’t predict how they are going to react and that you can’t rely on them to understand how you are going to react. It usually hits after a few months, long after you think you have got to grips with the obvious difficulties such as language. You wake up one day with the feeling that you are the only human on a robot planet, or that you are the only robot on a human planet. It’s an extremely unpleasant experience that I’m sure hundreds of thousands of Poles have been through at various locations around the globe. I think this is the point at which one can start to try and understand the people around you. The fact that they put boiled eggs in their soup or drink out of very, very small glasses is completely irrelevant. It took me about 5 minutes to get over the novelty of such activities.
żurek – soup with boiled eggs in it (I love it)
Something about Poland had been bothering me for months, but I couldn’t put my finger on it. There was something very different about the way Poles saw their own country that was very evident but extremely difficult to describe. It was shortly after my ‘culture shock’ moment that I began to see it. Simply put it is this: Polish people do not see Poland as their own country. I can hear the howls of disapproval and baying for my blood already, but let me explain. Poles clearly have a powerful sense of pride, but it is really pride in the Polish people, not pride in their nation. These are different things. Poles believe that Polish people are the most intelligent, passionate, moral, humorous, generous, god-fearing people in the world (who knows, they could be right) but they think that the Republic of Poland is a bit rubbish. In other words, they don’t feel that the actual internationally recognized entity that bears their name is worthy of it. The very obvious reason for this is that Polish people didn’t really create the nation that bears their name. It’s well know that ‘Poland’ has been invaded, occupied, and generally mucked about for centuries. The various kinds of Poland that have existed for the past 500 years have essentially been constructs imposed by outsiders. The triumph of 1989 was really the first time for hundreds of years that Poles had the opportunity to make the kind of country that they really wanted and they are still struggling with this awesome responsibility. There are so many aspects of modern Poland that are completely at odds with the Polish character that one can’t help but reach this conclusion. I will cite just two. Firstly, Polish people love the forests and the countryside. They pine to live in cosy wooden houses under the shade of pine trees with big dogs running about and deer grazing in the forest clearings. In fact most of them live in desperate broken down Stalinist housing blocks while 90 percent of the country is completely empty. This clearly wasn’t a housing system designed by Poles for themselves, and of course it wasn’t – it was imposed by a Soviet dominated regime that was focussed on having the maximum number of workers within easy reach of industrial facilities and administrative control. Which leads neatly onto my second point; bureaucracy. Poland is famous for its labyrinthine and all-encompassing bureaucracy and all Poles hate it. How did this system come to exist? Bureaucracy is completely alien to the Polish character and most Poles spend their whole lives trying to find ways of avoiding, bribing, or tricking the system. Clearly, this system was not invented by Poles and does not reflect their character. Again, it’s something that has been imposed from outside and the people haven’t yet found a way of ditching it. On the one hand there is enormous fear and respect for the system while on the other there is absolute contempt for it. It never ceases to astonish me how little respect Polish people have for their national institutions. The police are regarded as a joke, parliament as a corrupt talking shop for self-serving demagogues, and government is regarded with the same kind of suspicion that is reserved for people who turn up at your door selling time shares in Spain. Polish people have almost no faith in or respect for their institutions, and it’s easy to see why. They didn’t make any of them and many of the people involved in them are still operating under a system of rules imposed under a period of foreign rule. This is what I mean when I say that Poles don’t feel that the nation they live in reflects them as a people. To a foreigner it seems as if the Polish people are living in a foreign country even when they are at home. They don’t trust or believe in their republic. They’re desperately proud that it exist, but endlessly embarrassed by its form. This is a profound and formative period in their history and all this silly talk about ‘being European’ or ‘modern’ or ‘capitalist’ is completely beside the point. The very soul of the Polish people is struggling to shake itself free from decades of suffocation and they are going through a period of extreme confusion in which they have to figure out what is really them and what is just baggage from the past.
Kaczynski – ‘Truth and Justice,’ what is this, a Batman comic?
It’s very hard to explain how weird this is for an Englishman. We complain about our governments and criticize our police but we basically believe in them because they reflect us. Polish people look at their institutions and see fractured confusion. This is, of course, also a reflection but not a comfortable one. I think that a lot of Poles simply throw up their hands and say ‘there’s nothing I can do’ – they decide to concentrate on making money, or moving abroad to make money, rather than face a situation that seems hopeless. They abandon the republic safe in the knowledge that the Polish people themselves are safe in their centuries old techniques of ’surviving in spite of everything.’ Now is not the time for that. Now is the time to stand up and say ‘wait: this is not the country I want – do it the way I want or I’m going to vote you out of office and jump up and down on your head.’ This is the time to say ‘I am not afraid – this is the Poland I want. Stop playing with my insecurities and start suggesting some stuff that I can actually get behind.’ It’s clear to me that in a thousand years time Poles will look back on this period with immense pride (a second 1410) but it’s equally clear that most Poles today have no idea of the significance of the period in which they are living. Government is being left to third-rate crackpots and geriatric fanatics while the new generation of highly intelligent, highly educated young Poles are sweating their guts out in fast food restaurants in London.
Hey, it feels good to get that off my chest!
PS. I just looked at the BBC profile of Poland and apparently there are still laws against ‘deriding the nation and it’s political system’… seriously?


Hrm.. well, I must correct you: in 1997 you did NOT go to Poland. It was in 1998! Fact.
/ Miss Correct and Erect
Picky!
insightful and true
when you think about it it does make sense: we, the Poles, keep thinking all the time what is wrong with this country. your answer seems to tick all the boxes
the best about it is that you say it’s not our fault;) it’s just the un-Polish gurdle around you that suffocates you people constantly
makes me feel better;))
but when you said that the state doesn’t reflect us Poles, I started to wonder: is there “us”?
maybe we only seem as one nation, whereas we in fact aren’t? there are groups of people so strongly opposing one another that I can’t really see the possibility of working out one solution for a problem. gosh – I can’t really see a real political debate on what do we really want in this country. it’s about the politicians’ personalities, their past virtues/participarion in the communist secret service, secondary matters, or the things that are already settled in the civillised world (like: role of women, gay people etc.)… We are so behind – even the Czechs laugh at us – and you can’t blame them.
PS. Can I ask you a personal question? Would you say you are both English and Polish? You’ve been quite a while in this country: when did you start to feel like you belong here? After a year? Two? And if you didn’t, why not?
PolishPress: I tend to think that, in fact, Poles have a very strong national identity. You are very clear about what lies within the traditions of your country (although you may want to change some of these) and you have a very strong sense of a shared history and, of course, language. I think the fact that you may not feel bound together is precisely because of the weakness of the political structure of your nation and the feeling that you didn’t actually choose it.
In answer to your PS: I haven’t been in this country quite a while. I first came here in 1997 (or possibly 1998) but I haven’t been here ever since then! I lived here for short periods (never more than 6 months) two or three times in the late 90s and early 2000s, but I wasn’t here again until this year and I’ve only been here two months so far. I wouldn’t really know how long it takes to feel as if you belong here (although I suspect it would be quite a while!) However, I do have a great affection for the place and I have the feeling that I care what happens here.
Maybe you will disagree, but I think that the national identity we have is just fake. It’s not a sense of community. Not at all. Polish people don’t like or trust one another. Our national identity is a sort of emotion, very strong emotions… Collective pride mixed with the feeling of being hurt by everyone, with the feeling that Poland was always failing the expectations of its people (vide: glass houses in the interwar period), and all this in the sauce of complexes.
Our national identity is in majority a product of the Polish education system: especially literature and history classes. And the focus that s there on the ages and works that emphasised the need to protect and preserve Polish language, Polish culture from the powers that controlled Polish territories and intended to smash it. That kept the Polish spirit alive. The whole Polish marthyrology… the seriousness… Poland as the Christ among nations… “Poland is not yet lost, so long as we live” – as our anthem goes etc.
The aim of Poles for centuries, unlike many other nationals, was to have/fight for their country, not to run it smoothly. So when we actually have it, we’re like lunatics:) We don’t know what to do with it.
And you can see how the emphasis is here on the abstract her: “Poland”. It’s not on a person, on an individual. The individual always sacrifices oneself for the benefit of the abstract “Poland”.
What is the real national identity? The truth is, that the Poland that was is a Poland that is gone. One tenth of Poles were Jewish, who spoke Yiddish as their first language. Synagogues were in every town. They were an important part of the culture of this country, and they had their own culture which enriched and encompanied the mainstream. And they are gone, everything is gone. The Germans are gone, the Low German language (my great Grandmother’s native) is gone, Ukrainians are gone. Aristocracy and szlachta are gone. All country estates plundered, the heritage lost forever. Book burned, paintings stolen, mirrors broken, chairs and tables stolen by the peasants. And these people used to live together on this land for centuries. This was the true culture, the true identity of Poland.
Current government is another outcome of this fake-identity making based on romanticism-era patriotic drive.
PS. As to my previous PS – I think the feeling of belonging comes when you “participate”in a culture, when you watch local tv, when you’ve read basic local writers etc – and you then get the feeling you understand how those “robots” work:)) A jak Ci idzie nauka polskiego? Radzisz już sobie na dworcu bez gestykulacji?
A very thoughtful and heartfelt comment from PolishPress. I don’t feel I can do this justice in a replying comment, so I’m going to address it in detail in an upcoming post.
All I would say, as I kind of facile off-the-cuff response, is that it’s a perfect example of the extreme frustration and uneasiness that so many Polish people seem to feel about their republic.
[...] PolishPress left a particularly thoughtful and heartfelt comment in response to my ‘What IS Poland anyway?‘ post (read it now for the good of your soul. I’ll wait…). Although I’ve earned [...]
Sometimes the body language must differ on various occassions.
A few months ago I went to Chicago with my daughter, who does not speak much Polish (since she grew up in Sweden and USA practically without contact with Poles) and we went to a historic Polish district to eat at “Czerwone Jabluszko” a Polish restaurant. Nothing fancy, but a solid Polish peasant food. We had fun. Then we took a stroll, found a Polish deli, bought some Zywiecka kielbasa, some bryndza – neither of them are available in Atlanta as far as I know. Nostalgia food.
Then we found a Polish bookstore and indulged. Daughter found a richly illustrated Polish cookbook and bravely refused to buy an English language version, buying Polish language version instead. And I bought a little of everything. When we were leaving the bookstore, I was talking to my daughter in Swedish and – distracted – bumped into an old guy, and automatically said “I am sorry” instead of “przepraszam bardzo”, since I had no way of knowing that he spoke Polish.
The gentleman looked at me and said with a certain tone of disapproval: “trzeba mowic po polsku. Przeciez pani jest Polka!” = you have to speak Polish, because you are Polish.
And Iwonder if it was my body language, that helped him to recognize me as Polish, which would be surprising since I am often taken for Danish (in Danemark) or German (in Germany) or American (in Spain), and when I last visited Poland a taxi driver gave me a “compliment”: “Alez pani cudownie mowi po polsku!” = Your Polish is fabulous. And he would never said to someone who, he believed, was a Pole, that that person’s Polish is fabulous. So he must have taken me for a Polish speaking foreigner. Different body language?
I think the whole issue of recognizing who is and who isn’t Polish from their appearance/body language probably gets very complicated in the case of people who were raised in one culture and then lived abroad for many years. So it’s perhaps not surprising that you get different reactions in different places. The fact that you were emerging from a Polish bookshop and not speaking English perhaps gave the old guy a clue that you might be Polish (perhaps he was just guessing!). I would guess that the way you were dressed, or the kind of luggage you had, might have led the taxi driver to believe you were a foreigner with an unusually good grasp of Polish. The, rather simple, point I was trying to make was that many people believe they can identify their fellow countrymen purely from the way they look, when in fact I suspect it’s a lot more to do with the way they act. After all, I bet a Japanese born and raised in Japan could spot a Japanese American among a group of his countrymen, not from the way he looks, but from the way he acts.
Hmm, I made an experiment and called my Chinese-Japanese friend in Colorado. Her mother’s Japanese, her father is Chinese. She was born and raised in Taiwan, never ever serring her foot in Japanm yet is fluent in both Japanese and Chinese. She says that Chinese always peg her as Japanese, while Japanese never peg her as Chinese, but as Japanese American. May be she acts Japanese, consciously or unconsciusly following her Japanese mother? Meaning – I could neither confirm nor disprove your theory.
Minerva: now that’s what I call direct action! You might find this interesting (or indeed, you might already know about it). There’s a Japanese guy living in the States who calls himself Dyske Suematsu (his blog: http://www.dyske.com/) who once got into a discussion with his then girlfriend about whether or not it’s possible to tell Japanese, Chinese, and Korean people apart just from the way they look (her name by the way: Roxanne Wolanczyk!). In an attempt to answer the question once and for all he set up http://alllooksame.com/ – a site on which visitors are asked to try and identify the nationality of 18 faces (all Asian and all either Japanese, Chinese, or Korean). It’s been running for years and, apparently, his data suggests that I doesn’t matter whether you are Asian, African, European, or Native Australian – your chances of scoring better than blind chance would allow are extremely low. In other words, Even Chinese people who swear they can spot a Japanese at 50 paces, and vice-versa, can’t.
I think this is all down to what they call a selection effect. When people make intuitive guesses about people’s nationality or ethnic origins, and get it right, they tend to remember the person involved by picturing their face (the face is, after all, our primary means of identifying individuals – assuming you’re not blind that is). The memory of the face then becomes strongly connected with the memory of correctly guessing that person’s ethnicity and, not unnaturally, we assume the correct guess was the result of our reaction to that face. I still contend that, in fact, the correct identification is more likely to have been down to other factors that we don’t retain conscious awareness of. I think alllooksame’s results back me up in this. Of course, when we incorrectly guess a person’s ethnicity, we tend to forget all about the incident! I’d love to set up an ‘identify-the-Pole’ test, but who has the time.
let me introduce myself , I am the polish guy in New York City , my polish name is Maciek , most americans would call me Macy or Magic , and they allways try to americanize the name , Zbyszek =Zibi , Zigi , Ziggy ,
Wiesiek (wieslaw) = Wenceley , Jerzy = Jersey ,
Rafal = Ralph , Lech , Leszek = Lance , Les , some polish names are unheard of in america like Wojtek or Mietek .
These guys have to deal with either changing their name , to something like Bill or Mitch or not being able to function
Anyway it is not a problem because Brooklyn is not american , some americans are moving into this colorful enclave of immigrants from all over the world , And this is a big multiculture amalgam of Jewish , Polish , Puerto Rican , Italian , Russian , Jamaican , Mexican , Ecuadorian , Irish , German and all kinds of Africans , not to mention all the Arab store owners it just boggles the mind how many nations are represented in such a borough .
Americans are going to Brooklyn , because they find ot they can no longer afford manhattan prices , manhattan is full of tourists anyway , and rich dont go to brooklyn.
So now the williamsburg has all the artist , all young people , who make the buzzz , manhattan has been left for tourist and enormously rich .
grzegorz brzeczyszczykiewicz
So now more to the point , I am most of the times able to recognise people of Slavic origin in NYC , Why??
Easy , they differ enough from this multicultural mess to be recognisable , Maybe in Europe it is less obvious , but in Nyc one soon catches the slight differences .
NYC is also one of the few places where polish jews went after the war . Hasidim jews originate from the polish territories and many of them , especially from older generation can speak and undarstand polish.
NYC has a strong jewish population and some parts of brooklyn look like early 20th century polish city with all the jews , if you ever come to visit Boro park in Brooklyn you might witness what many cities in Poland would look like if the world war 2 never happened .Come to Greenpoint ,go into any restaurant and speak polish , no problem , even arab owners of the delis will understand you .
Why polish people feel as if their own state is rubbish?
Because they have seen better , and I think its good , they want the best , not some corrupt Kwasniewski or ultra religious Kaczynski , and it is evident in peoples thinking about politics , recent victory of Tusk proves that polish people need a modern leader , not someone stuck in the past , hopefully we will get more people like that , oriented on growth , progress and prosperity . and less on the power trip .
We need people with broad vision of the future , not the ones stuck in the past and the ones who remind us of bad times , We have to grow , to move forward with every step , their is no time for backward thinking .
Many people are stuck in the past , thats why they dont care about anything , even when they are walking on the street bumping mindlessly into others , they think its all hopeless , but its not .
Polish people will have to ultimately understand that they create their own future !
“if you ever come to visit Boro park in Brooklyn you might witness what many cities in Poland would look like if the world war 2 never happened”
A fascinating idea! I’d like to see it one day.
I think that Minerva’s taxi driver simply recognized her non-Polish accent. Only Poles who emigrated before or soon after WWII can still speak fluent, not-accentuated Polish. The 1970-80s emigrants speak with very heavy accent and often have lost their fluency in the language. Likely Minerva spoke more fluently than an average Polish emigrant, although still with an accent.
The few English people I’ve ever heard speaking Polish speak higher than they do in English. Listen to John Porter for example. His voice takes on an unnaturally high pitch. Polish Americans do the same. At the same time they often mix Polish words with English, and lose their ability to apply declension. They still decline words, just not always properly. They also use the stiff English sentence structure, which in Polish sounds odd, and of course they start every other sentence with “Ja”, or sometimes even address strangers per “ty”. Moreover, since today it’s difficult to talk without mentioning internet, mobiles, computers and alike, but they’re all new inventions, not knowing their Polish counterparts emigrants use English words. Poles have MPtrójki, they – MPThree. In fact there’s a number of jokes in Poland about the language they speak. I don’t know whether they realize how oddly they come off, but some seem to have lost their Polish even after just one year abroad.
_I_ was shocked when I heard Zbigniew Brzeziński or Richard Pipes speaking Polish! No emigrant I’ve ever met in person could do it so well.
Maciej Stuhr paroding Mariusz Max Kolonko – a TVP’s US correspondent, who speaks fluently, but with accent.
I wonder if it works both ways. Do English speakers lose their English in Poland?
Very good post, by the way!
Sylwia: You’re obviously a keen and perceptive student of these things!
Interesting what you say about foreigners using a higher pitch when speaking Polish, I’ve noticed this too and I consciously try to avoid it. I have a theory it’s because they learn their pronunciation from their Polish girlfriends/wives.
I’ve never come across anybody who’s lost their English from living in Poland, but then I’ve never come across somebody who been here that long. I doubt it would happen, there is so much English around in movies, songs etc. you wouldn’t lose touch with in the way a Polish speaker might in the US.
“It’s well know that ‘Poland’ has been invaded, occupied, and generally mucked about for centuries.”
I would say it is a common western stereotype. Certainly Poles don’t think this way about Poland, believe me.
“The various kings of Poland that have existed for the past 500 years have essentially been constructs imposed by outsiders.”
Keep in mind that ‘Poland’ had about 50 kings and only last few were ‘imposed’. Moreover these ‘imposed’ kings aren’t even remembered now. Remembered are: Kazimierz I the Restorer, Jan III Sobieski or Stefan I Batory
We are proud of our history. I’m not saying that everything was perfect, but I really hate when people see ‘Poland’ only as a country that was constantly invaded, occupied and weak, cause it wasn’t.
how very very true! thank you gor this article.
how very very true! thank you for this article.
thanks for answering me, im going to be living in Warsaw
ill be living in Warsaw